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Another controversial topic, divorce and remarriage. My mom is in Kentucky (I am in northern IN southern MI) with my brother for a while, back next Friday. On Fridays I had been stopping at the nursing home and visiting my dad while he was alive. I switched to visiting my mom when he passed away. I figure this helps to satisfy the command to honor our parents while at the same time leaving them and clinging to our wife; we spend some time with our parents and care for them but they are not our top priority. So while my mom is in Kentucky I have been visiting m sister on Fridays after work.
She is divorced living with a room mate in Middlebury. Her husband was a divorced man and some of the family treated her pretty bad because of it. My daughter is engaged to a divorced man. Next Saturday we plan on getting together as a whole family, my mom, 8 siblings and spouses and children and grandchild. Kind of a remember Dad day. I said to my sister that I was a little nervous about somebody attacking me about my daughter and her divorced fiance. After all, they make remarks about wearing shorts when it is 90° outside; they do not believe a person wearing short pants can go to heaven.
My sister said she had been thinking about it and came to various conclusions. One, if Mary's fiance Scot's ex-wife was to die before they did then they would no longer be living in sin; he would be a widower, free to enjoy the marriage relationship with his new wife and would no longer be living in sin. From this conclusion then (and this is only hypothetical, but still true) logically it would make sense for me to kill his ex-wife so that my daughter would not be living in sin. I would have committed the sin of murder, easily forgiven and if executed for it would die and go to heaven, a small price to pay for my daughter's soul.
I understand that we can make mistakes in our youth that haunt us for the rest of our life, I completely understand that. I just wonder about a person who marries someone in their youth that they find out is a monster of some sort and then making them live unmarried for the rest of their life. It does not seem like the right thing to do.
If the concept that a divorced couple is living in sin is true, then logically what I am saying is true; it would be better to kill the ex-wife or ex-husband. How can this be God's heart?
- 4 people like this.
Luisa Pohl Bonilla Detwiler I don't think it is, I think there are acceptable reasons for divorce, that invalidate the marriage and make it possible for a divorced person to have a Godly marriage. I also think we are covered by grace; we are all living in sin of some kind, sins we are not holy enough to even recognize, therefore it could be said that we are unrepentant of those sins. Does that mean Christ's blood doesn't cover our sins?
13 hours ago · Unlike · 3
Gary Lawler Very controversial subject- but, if you believe the Bible just the way it's written, is understandable. The scripture distinguishes between a man and a woman, here. Here is a good sermon bringing it out : http://branham.org/messageplayer/65-0221M
Voice Of God Recordings - Sermons by William Marrion Branham
branham.org
12 hours ago · Unlike · 1 · Remove Preview
Kelly W. Hunt I'll comment on this tonight. I've pondered this for years...and O believe I have some insight.
12 hours ago · Unlike · 3
Wunderbar Gute Gesundheit Man Moses there is no fear of God in your message !! It's all twisted with the carnal man thoughts . First off Jesus himself was the one that said divorce and remarriage is wrong . Yes if a divorced man or woman marries again than both that engage in the act are living in sin. And talking about killing the ex-wife so your daughters so called fiance doesn't have to live in sin....dude that thought itself is from Satan . How can one sin make another sin right ? If you really want the truth seek it in the fear of God and not to justify your daughter who sounds like is committing to live in sin. The truth can not be changed and just because a sinner wants your daughter to engage in sin with him does not make it right just because its your daughter . Sin is sin no matter what name you give it.
Luisa Pohl Bonilla Detwiler I look forward to your thoughts on this, Kelly.
12 hours ago · Like · 1
Luisa Pohl Bonilla Detwiler 1 Corinthians 7:15 - But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such [cases]: but God hath called us to peace.
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Moses D. Yoder Wunderbar Gute Gesundheit, I know that is the standard religious answer. You are not telling me anything I didn't already know. My Beachy brothers and sister who believe I am going to hell for wearing short pants will tell me the same exact thing.
12 hours ago · Like · 3
Miriam Ora Troyer Moses, The "killing", is out! I don't think a Christian, knowing full well it is wrong --in the sight of God & man, can ever fully be sorry for doing it, so forgiveness, won't be happening any time soon! ~~Ora
12 hours ago · Like · 1
Luisa Pohl Bonilla Detwiler Is it not also sinful to condemn others to hell? Is that not God's job alone?
12 hours ago · Like · 1
Miriam Ora Troyer I do think, once we're Christians, we need to abide with Scriptures --the Words of Jesus, & not go into a devorce & remarriage with each other. When people ignorantly have made this mistake, I believe we qualify for forgiveness, if & when we are truly sorry for breaking God's rules. It's best to stay safe, & not venture into a 'dare-devil' contest with God! ~~Ora
12 hours ago · Unlike · 1
Miriam Ora Troyer No human being has a right to condemn anybody, let alone condemning another to Hell! Warning, on the other hand, might KEEP somebody from Hell!!! ~~Ora
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Moses D. Yoder I notice that the same word adultery is used when Jesus says a man who looks at a woman and lusts after her commits adultery in his heart as He does for a couple who divorces and remarrys. That means that every red blooded male (especially myself) is guilty of the same sin as being divorced and remarried. Meg is the only woman I have ever been with but if I said I do not occasionally find a woman attractive I would be lying. 1 John 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
12 hours ago · Like · 2
Maria Stoltzfus I don't think, in my opinion that a sin that you did & knew better could be easily forgiven, that's what I get out of"blaspheming against the holy ghost", once we know better but still do it.
Moses D. Yoder My father was going to disown my sister when she married a divorced man and he called the preachers over to ask the about it. One of them said "Well you can disown her but she will still be your daughter." He thought about that and decided to love her anyway.
12 hours ago · Like · 1
Luisa Pohl Bonilla Detwiler I think the sacrifice of Jesus is powerful enough to cover all sins, knowing and unknowing.
Wunderbar Gute Gesundheit Luke 16:18 Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
John 4:16 Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither.
John 4:17 The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband:
John 4:18 For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly.
Moses D. Yoder I agree that marrying a divorced person is a sin according to the Bible. Absolutely no argument there. NO need to post anything further along those lines. I can rape someone and be forgiven. I can go on a shooting spree at the local high school and be forgiven. I can eat people and be forgiven (Jeffrey Dahmer.) How is it that if I marry a divorced person I am not forgiven?
11 hours ago · Like · 1
Jake Lapp Luisa Pohl Bonilla Detwiler, Are you saying that if your child is molested that the sin would already paid for without repentance or consequences ??
Maria Stoltzfus agreed,Luisa,he does have the power, but remember when Jesus was baptized, the devil came to him, he used scripture to try to get him to sin,I can't put it in words how it is but as much as we are not to tempt God,,,, somebody help me with that??
11 hours ago · Like · 1
Luisa Pohl Bonilla Detwiler I am not an Anabaptist. I was taught that we are all sinners, and in my church every week we confess our sins, known and unknown, and we are forgiven and we take communion. I'm not a theological scholar, I gave my opinion to the best of my ability.
11 hours ago · Like · 2
Debbie Yvonne according to how God, views when one becomes husband and wife.... Genesis 2:24; 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. .... It is not a marriage ceremony as we as men see it.... it is the act of being joined together to be one flesh that is a marriage act..... to commit adultery would be to have sex with anyone other than your first partner....the act of being unfaithful.... Jesus, never said there was not forgiveness for it He only affirmed that it was a sin....
Maria Stoltzfus I'd feel guilty asking God to forgive a sin that I knowingly did, but I'm done commenting on this post, it just blows my mind.
11 hours ago · Like · 1
Wunderbar Gute Gesundheit Maria Stoltzfus I think you was referring to this verse which is very fitting. Matthew 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
11 hours ago · Like · 1
Gary Lawler Paul said that a deacon or bishop was to be the husband of one wife. What about a brother that wasn't one of those ? You can't go by human reasoning- it has to be the Bible, the Word of God.
11 hours ago · Like · 1
Debbie Yvonne in that time Gary Lawler, it was common for men to be married to more than one woman at a time.....
Gary Lawler Were there ever any woman in the Bible married to more than one man ?
11 hours ago · Like · 1
Wunderbar Gute Gesundheit And @ Mose all your messages are sickly messed up and twisted it appears you're trying to call evil good at the same time calling good evil. You twist truth with untruth with an attempt to deceive . Sin remains sin we have all fallen short and have sinned but justifying sin is a gross error. How can there be forgiveness for sin if sin isn't considered sin for if it is not considered sin there will be no feeling the need of forgiveness. It's the sick not the healthy that have need of a physcian
11 hours ago · Like · 1
Debbie Yvonne it was not common knowledge if so..... in the bible adultery is usually an act done by a man and fornication an act often referred to as being done by a woman..... I am doubting very much that a woman would be commiting adultery then as it was the woman who was stoned to death for the adulterous acts committed ....
11 hours ago · Like · 1
Debbie Yvonne Wunderbar Gute Gesundheit; take it in the sarcastic humor in which it is given.... Think of it...... how silly is it to say one sin is not forgivable but yet another is... how narrow minded of us to think that the sin of being married to the wrong person can not be covered under the blood...forgotten and forgiven.... and do not forget how many times we are told to forgive those who sin against us... I don't know about you I have yet to meet someone who can do that 490 times in one day ....
11 hours ago · Like · 2
Gary Lawler JESUS.KEEPS.ALL.HIS.APPOINTMENTS (excerpt) What is a sinner? Not them who smoke. Smoking is not a sin. Drinking is not a sin. Cursing is not a sin. Committing adultery is not a sin. No, no. That's attributes of unbelief. You do that because you're not a believer.
There's only two: one, you are a believer, or you're not a believer. If you're not a believer, no matter how religious you are, you're still a sinner. You're still a sinner, if you don't accept every Word of that Bible, every Word of It. "For both heavens and earth will pass away, but not one jot or one tittle will pass from That." And we'll give an account for it.
You say, "Well, I belong to church. My people don't..." That don't matter. "I do this." I don't care what you've done.
You're either a believer or a sinner. - Wm. Branham (branham.org)
11 hours ago · Like · 2
Luisa Pohl Bonilla Detwiler So believers are free from sin? Anyone who struggles with sin is not a believer? Believers are perfectly sinless?
11 hours ago · Like · 2
Gary Lawler Amen Hallelujah ! Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
11 hours ago · Like · 1
Luisa Pohl Bonilla Detwiler I think there is more than one way to interpret that scripture. I don't think it means we become perfectly sinless, I think it means we are free from death because of Jesus.
11 hours ago · Like · 1
Gary Lawler According to my faith in the Word, I'm totally free
Jim VanNieulande Following your line of twisted thinking, that murder frees one of the sin of adultery, then you can be forgiven of the murder... A doctor performs 1,000 abortions, all these babies go to heaven, then the doctor is born again and is forgiven, now they all areis rejoicing in heaven
Debbie Yvonne do you think Jesus would have spoken that way?Jim VanNieulande????
Jim VanNieulande ... all are rejoicing in heaven. Is this a good thing? This is the twisted thinking you are talking.
Gary Lawler I never said anything about murder, Jim. Where'd u get that ?
Debbie Yvonne Gary Lawler, if I am understanding you correctly Jesus has delivered you from your sins correct??? Then why is it not possible for Jesus to deliver one from adultery? ....
Luisa Pohl Bonilla Detwiler We cannot earn our way into heaven with sinless behavior. I don't believe their is a human alive who can live without committing sins of thought, word or deed, ever. All we can do is accept Christ's sacrifice and grace.
11 hours ago · Like · 1
Gary Lawler Jesus can deliver one from adultery.
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Debbie Yvonne What does it mean when God forgives a person of their sins?
Debbie Yvonne and Jim VanNieulande, do you mean to tell me Jesus, never used His words to create shock value???
Debbie Yvonne or actions?
Gary Lawler John 16: 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; John 15:24
If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
Kelly W. Hunt I want everyones attention please? If this thread is to continue forward let's be gentle with our words as it is a very hot and touchy topic. And if there wasn't some room for questioning if it was all black and white we would not be having this debate. I am asking kindly as your sister in Christ 2 please be delicate and thoughtful before you type.
11 hours ago · Like · 1
Kelly W. Hunt<http://www.anabaptistchurch.org/Divorce_Murphy.htm>
The Teaching of Jesus concerning Divorce and Remarriage
Anabaptist Voice NewslettersApril 2001April 14, 05Dec 28, 05Apr 16, 08Apr 23, 08Apr 30, 08May 07, 08May 14, 08June 18, 08
10 hours ago · Like · 1 · Remove Preview
Kelly W. Hunt Several things come to mind when this subject comes up... First of all, WHO is Jesus speaking to? (People who listen and follow him).. and WHO is Paul speaking to? (The Church).
I applaud the Anabaptist Churches for TEACHING those within the church to remain married to one person for LIFE.
However, not everyone is taught this growing up. Some people go their whole lives not knowing. And I don't think it is as much about the sin, as it is that our Heavenly Father, through His Son's words, wants to spare us the drama and heartache. He cares for us.
But like any other sin, what's done is done. I do not believe that this is an unrepentable sin.
Lets be cautious of judging each other, and throwing stones.
10 hours ago · Unlike · 2
Kelly W. Hunt And anymore super-holier-than-thou, sneering down our judgemental nose comments will simply be deleted.
10 hours ago · Like · 1
Meg Yoder Thank you Kelly for posting this article.
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Kelly W. Hunt Your welcome Meg.
Debbie Yvonne that was a very good read Kelly I enjoyed that very much ty
9 hours ago · Like · 1
Kelly W. Hunt Do you know when the Pharisee's asked Jesus about laboring on the Sabbath and Jesus responded with the story of the Ox?
"Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day?"
Luke 14:1-6
This isn't pertaining to D&R, but Jesus was forever demonstrating common sense when the situation calls for it.
9 hours ago · Like · 1
Wunderbar Gute Gesundheit Galatians 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Debbie Yvonne Yes, Jesus was good for doing that giving out parables....
Debbie Yvonne 24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way ; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. 25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing. 27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery : 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out , and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish , and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off , and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish , and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 31 It hath been said , Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery : and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery . 33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself , but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: Matthew 5:24-34 (Now I ask you again have you not known Jesus to speak in outlandishness)
9 hours ago · Like · 1
Debbie Yvonne Kelly the article you showed brought better understanding of why Jesus used the two different terms fornication and adultery
9 hours ago · Like · 1
Kelly W. Hunt Say's the man with the Pot-Leaf on his profile pic...
8 hours ago · Unlike · 2
Luisa Pohl Bonilla Detwiler Really
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Miriam Ora Troyer Today's use of the word "fornication", IS usally meant outside of marriage; however, the Biblical use, is for any & every illicit sex. The word "adultery" in Biblical usage, is strictly in reference to being unfaithful, disloyal, to vows made, therefore it certainly applies to marriage. Biblical "adultery", in reference to marrige, also comes under "fornication". The reverse, however, is not true, i.e., fornication, does not come under adultery. Adultery, is COVENANT BROKEN, plain & simple. It starts in the heart, we give it thought, & we blew it!!! ~~Ora
Wunderbar Gute Gesundheit Seek the truth and ye shall find it
Kelly W. Hunt Debbie, the good thing about the Anabaptist way of teaching is: It fits into their world perfectly and keeps their divorce rate at about 2%.
The bad thing is: It doesn't apply to any form of evangelizing. So, just as PAUL spoke to THE CHURCH, it's fine to teach that we only need one spouse. As Moses agreed, it's a sin, to be D&R (with some exceptions).. BUT HOLY COW PEOPLE, when you evangelize to the LOST, who do you think your reaching out to? (Answer: SINNERS!)
You know, you can't walk up to a prostitute and tell her about the gospel, and how Jesus died for her sins, and that he can SAVE her from HELL, because his blood covers all her past except one particular sin... Now, no worries about the 100's of men you've had relations with, or the abortions, or the obvious sin of Prostitution.. Forget the lust, fornication, adultery, the drug habits...
What do you say to her when she's been married 7 times, has 5 kids by 5 different Daddies, and feels like she can NEVER MAKE THIS RIGHT WITH GOD???
Sinners are out there SINNING. It's what they do! When they are redeemed, God meets them where they are in that sin. He doesn't expect them to untie all the knots and make everything right.
What can wash away my sin?
Kelly W. Hunt And I might say this, lest I be a hypocrite: I support medicinal Marijuana, especially for Chemo patients. I also support research regarding it's effect on carcinogins, and tumor reduction (this can be a whole different thread on another day...)
But my point is; I find it ridiculous that someone who would desire that the world be more *open minded* would throw stones, let alone scripture around like he doesn't have his own sin to hide.
8 hours ago · Like · 2
Wunderbar Gute Gesundheit Does a sinner continue to sin after he is redeemed? And you sir are trying to make sin look like its not sin so how can there be washing of sin where you don't consider it sin? Did not Jesus say go and sin on more ?
Kelly W. Hunt He didn't tell her how to undo it. She was living with the last man, not married to her. What he DIDN'T DO was condemn her. Chew on that please?
8 hours ago · Edited · Like
Luisa Pohl Bonilla Detwiler Doesn't he also talk about forgiving your brother seventy times seven times, and how much more our father in heaven is able to forgive us?
8 hours ago · Like · 2
Debbie Yvonne YIKES!! Wunderbar Gute Gesundheit, is that a plank I see sticking out of your eye socket.... I wasn't sure if it was mine getting in the way of seeing it clearly but, I do think you have one too!!!
8 hours ago · Like · 2
Luisa Pohl Bonilla Detwiler And yes, a sinner continues to sin after he is redeemed. That's why the sacrifice of Jesus is so amazing. We don't deserve it. None of us deserve it.
8 hours ago · Like · 2
Debbie Yvonne Why yes, Jesus did say that... He did not however tell her that she could not be married again.. Her sin was the sin of living outside the bounds of marriage according to the will of God... now lets take a moment as well to think of what Jesus drew in the sand.... are you so sure that the words were not they are guilty of the same as you
8 hours ago · Edited · Like · 2
Kelly W. Hunt AGREED! It's because God yet met us in our sin, and covers it with the blood of Christ, that we are able to move forward and do our BEST to live as sinlessly as possible. But when we DO sin, we have an advocate with the Father.
8 hours ago · Like · 3
Jake Lapp Let's make sure that we are not justifying sin, if we are justifying sin Jesus can't wash the sins away.
8 hours ago · Like · 1
Wunderbar Gute Gesundheit Luisa Pohl Bonilla Detwiler is there forgiveness without repentence ? And Debbie Yvonne how does quoting what the bible says make it look like a plank in my eye. I'm in no way calling myself better than anyone else all I'm trying to do is defend the word of God which you and your buddies appear to be trying to pervert it. Did Jesus have a plank in his eye when he went in the temple and drove out thise that were doing what they wasn't suppose to be doing? And Kelly sin is already condemned that is why Jesus told her to go sin no more . He didn't say it was ok to continue as she was doing did he ?
Kelly W. Hunt No, never Jake. I'm saying that when some of us were converted to Christians, we probably didn't know what the rules were? Not everyone was raised in church. So, you want to be a follower, but your lousey at it-
It's one-foot-in-front-of-the-other. Not perfection all in one day. Everytime you mess, up, Jesus picks you up.
Luisa Pohl Bonilla Detwiler Is there really a limit to grace? Faith, not works, is the key to everlasting life.
8 hours ago · Like · 2
Debbie Yvonne I say that man would be best to leave it up to God, to do the convicting sins....Let me see if I remember this correctly how the convo went Jesus said who here condemns you for your sin? Woman says none does Lord... Jesus says neither do I condemn you go and sin no more....
8 hours ago · Like · 1
Luisa Pohl Bonilla Detwiler Wunderbar, I believe in repenting of our sins. I think it is a shame when some Christians tell other people that no matter how repentant they are of past sins, their sins are unforgivable
8 hours ago · Like · 2
Jake Lapp I believe many different people are trying to make different points in the discussion. Let's check our hearts and expand our minds to a bigger picture that GOD might be trying to communicate to us through everyone's keys coming together as one.
8 hours ago · Like · 2
Wunderbar Gute Gesundheit Go and sin no more ....he didn't say go do as you was before . And we can not be saved by works for we all come short but also faith witout works is dead. By the fruit we are known. The word of God will judge us . Faith without works is dead . And calling sin not sin ......or saying its ok to live in sin.....hmmmm is that what your bible teaches ?
Debbie Yvonne Noooo, I am going to be blantantly honest with you on this one.... I am not making a mockery of the Word of God I am just astounded that you did not get the sarcasm which the post was posted at and I am further astounded that one can believe that past forgiven bahaviors can in anyway shape of form have any connection with new experiences
8 hours ago · Like · 1
Jake Lapp John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
8 hours ago · Like · 1
Debbie Yvonne My bible teaches me God, does not think like man thinks nor does man think like God thinks....
8 hours ago · Like · 2
Meg Yoder Yes, by our fruits we are known....love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance. Honestly Wunderbar, not one of these can be found in the verbal tirades you are beating other people with.
8 hours ago · Unlike · 3
Luisa Pohl Bonilla Detwiler I'm not an expert on the Bible. I read it, I cherish it, and I believe it, but I don't presume to understand everything in it. F I'm not mistaken, the Bible says now we see as through a glass darkly.
8 hours ago · Like · 1
Wunderbar Gute Gesundheit Look i am in need for forgiveness as much as anyone I just can't stand when people pervert the word of God yet deem thenself to be the ones that are right . What happemes if we deny Christ ?
8 hours ago · Like · 1
Kelly W. Hunt Wunderbar Gute Gesundheit- He wasn't referring to her marraige because she wasn't in one. She was caught IN THE ACT.
The bible doesn't say HOW she was in adultery. She could have been in an affair with another man besides the one she was living with. All we know, is that they wanted to stone her. Jesus gave her another chance.
So really, there is not much people who find themselves in a D&R situation CAN do? All this talk about separating to show repentance is bunk. It's man-made!
Have you repaid the store-owner you stole candy from as a kid? Did you do any harm as a teen to anyone's land? Did you lie, steal, cheat, IN ANY WAY? If the answer is yes, then you better get busy doing something to make it right! Or did you tell God: "I will never do that AGAIN, and I repent- meaning you will make a point in your heart to never repeat that sin? You had better go around and right EVERY WRONG, because otherwise, your still not repentant. If you lie, and you have not corrected it, YOUR STILL IN AN ACTIVE STATE OF LYING.
If you stole, no matter if it was 30 years ago, and didn't pay it back, YOUR STILL A THIEF.
I get it if someone in the church divorces... I GET IT. What I don't get is: you can't fix it if it's broken to shreds by siinners. They realize what they've done and they acknowledge it to God, and promise to never do it again.
I've heard this nonsense a thousand times about REPENTING and somehow for THIS SIN ALONE, we are to make an act of contrition to show we are repentant. We are to separate- but not divorce, (yes, live in 2 separate homes) because it's STILL a marraige, just an adulterous one. Divorcing would be sinning agian.
Bologna. Show me in the bible where it says to handle it that way? Why would we simply not condemn, and allow God to cover that sin?
I'll tell you why Anabaptists have difficulty with this: Because until people from the outside started coming to their churches, this line of thinking worked just fine on a group of people raised in a church.
Take that to the streets. It doesn't fly.
8 hours ago · Edited · Like · 1
Luisa Pohl Bonilla Detwiler I don't believe anybody here is perverting the word of God
8 hours ago · Like · 2
Kelly W. Hunt What we need to do is accept people with a past, give them milk, and teach them about how we are to live according to Gods word. THEN, once they are mature enough to chew on the meat, we hold them accountable. You don't hold people accountable of what they clearly have never understood.
8 hours ago · Like · 2
Luisa Pohl Bonilla Detwiler Remember the parable about the workers who started working in the fields at different times of day, some right before quitting time, and yet they all received the same pay? I feel that is true for people who come to Christ late in life, with a tremendous burden of sin behind them, and people who were raised in church and have relatively fewer sins.
8 hours ago · Like · 1
Debbie Yvonne 1 Judge not, that ye be not judged . 2 For with what judgment ye judge , ye shall be judged : and with what measure ye mete , it shall be measured to you again . 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold , a beam is in thine own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. 6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you Matthew 7:1-6 (Now if you are sure of your measure of judgment then by all means go ahead and judge away. I will leave you with this the words of our Savior ) John 12:42-50;42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue: 43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God. 44 Jesus cried and said , He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. 45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. 46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken , the same shall judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say , and what I should speak . 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak .
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Wunderbar Gute Gesundheit How many of you stating on this are D&R? When you justify living in sin that's preverting the word if God . If you say its ok to so what Jesus himself said not to do....is that keeping his commandments?
Kelly W. Hunt Do you smoke pot? Is it illegal? Are you obeying the laws of the land?
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Debbie Yvonne How about you Wunderbar Gute Gesundheit??? Are you saying you never looked at a woman and lusted after her and though unclean thoughts?
Wunderbar Gute Gesundheit Exactly what I figured Kelly you're D&R that's why you're trying to justify it . And no I do not smoke pot plus I don't know who gave a God made herb the name pot . Time for proper education sir ?
Debbie Yvonne that was a rhetorical question btw no need to answer just pulling your perspective around.... Jesus, said that it was adultery just the same ... so if you have you are guilty of the same and must repent and never do such again.....
Luisa Pohl Bonilla Detwiler Are you loving your neighbor, Wunderbar?
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Wunderbar Gute Gesundheit Debbie I didn't say I haven't but im not justifying what I done that is wrong
Luisa Pohl Bonilla Detwiler I don't think you're treating Kelly with love at all
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Debbie Yvonne I am sorry you missed what the sin part of divorce and remarriage was.... Does God remember past sins once forgiven of?
Jake Lapp Can you see the enemy at work here. We are not wrestling against flesh and blood. If we operate from the mindset that "I am right and you are wrong" we might be missing the real enemy.
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Wunderbar Gute Gesundheit Repent of what I done wrong yes correct Debbie I'm not justifying to be right what I done wrong. And I'm not judging nobody but I seek to defend the word of God . Be not deceived God will not be mocked what he says he keeps
Debbie Yvonne Nobody has done any justifying of sin here... that is your own thinking....
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Wunderbar Gute Gesundheit Is you say D&R is ok than yes you are justifying sin
Kelly W. Hunt Ok.. your dancing around words. Simantics. Do you smoke, or eat, or otheriwse indulge in the use of Marijuana?
Of course I'm D &R !! I am not saying it's not a sin. I'm saying I am forgiven. You see, my ex is a murderer, who's brother molested my children and is doing 2 life sentances. After 5 years of getting the crap beat out of me, 7 fractured ribs, a broken jaw, and living with a druggie, I decided this union was going to kill me. I'm sure God understands. He's now in prison for killing someone after I left.
I'm not seeking your mercy, but don't you dare judge me, lest you be a hypocrite.
I didn't understand what a holy union was in the first place and had never heard of D&R or any sin relating to it. I found out much later. Now, the question is NOT is it a sin? In MOST cases, it is. In some, no I believe the angels appluad.
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Debbie Yvonne Matthew 5:28; But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. ( And if you are saying it is alright not to ask for forgiveness and do this you are justifying your own sins)
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Luisa Pohl Bonilla Detwiler Again, I'm not an expert, but if I recall correctly, anybody who is not married to the first person they had sex with is committing adultery, according to the Bible. Should all the people who find themselves married to someone other than their first live separately from their spouse? Again, we didn't all grow up with the Bible
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Kelly W. Hunt That is your arrogant opinion, Wunderbar Gute Gesundheit and I'm ok with it. Take a number- The line forms to the left.
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Debbie Yvonne In the case of ones who divorce and remarry .... How do you not know that the ones did not ask God, to forgive them of the sin of an Ungodly union and that sin is forgiven and that they are now in a Holy union truly one that finds favor with the Lord
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Kelly W. Hunt Debbie, that's exactly what we did.
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Debbie Yvonne I will ask again does God keep account of our past sins once forgiven?
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Debbie Yvonne So, what is the judgment and council of man compared to a Holy God.... the most Holy God states once a sin is forgiven it is not to be remembered against us anymore......
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Kelly W. Hunt Debbie, what they are suggesting is that we are in a continual state of sin in the subsequent marraiges. But you can't divorce either, because that would be a sin too.
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Kelly W. Hunt Yep, we just quote what is selective... not the whole bible.
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Wunderbar Gute Gesundheit Are sins forgiven if we continue to live in them ?
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Debbie Yvonne Who's is saying one is living in sin?
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Kelly W. Hunt Is it a sin if we've asked God to forgive us of our ignorance and promise to never do it again?
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Kelly W. Hunt This is MAN'S reasoning. We take selective scriptures out of the Bible to make a case, and then slam the person guilty of D&R with them...completely omiting any suggestion of forgiveness, mercy, compassion, or grace.
And I am not saying it wasn't a sin. It was. It was unintentional. I believe God can forgive me. Even if man can't.
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Debbie Yvonne I am sorry I do not sit under the council and judgment of man for man's way of thinking wavers which ever way the wind blows to suit themselves... I will put the blood of Jesus that says it is done up against any man's judgment any day and KNOW it is enough!!!
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Jake Lapp The motive of the heart is the key.
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Kelly W. Hunt When we TRULY ask God for forgiveness, AND REPENT, (You don't get to choose how I repent)
does He not put that sin as far as the EAST IS FROM THE WEST and remembers it no more?? Or is that just a fairytale?
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Debbie Yvonne I have to thank you though Wunderbar Gute Gesundheit, you did bring about understanding to me of why so many do not like the word works.... I finally get it lol!!!! I could jump up and down for joy at finally understanding what others were trying to tell that I knew all along but have never came face to face with its ugly head.... till now....
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Jake Lapp Jesus said that Moses allowed divorce because of the hardness of the heart. The key is "do we still have hard hearts ??
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Kelly W. Hunt Absolutely. I would have NEVER sinned against God intentionally. I beat myself up daily for it. But you know what? We all have sin, and we all have unresolved sin. Say what you want, but none of us are lily-white.
My heart is to please God. I have asked him to forgive me for unknowingly commit the sin of D&R, and since I can't divorce without sinning agian.. and there is no solution in the bible OTHER than confessing and having a repentant heart,... I see no other need to do anything other than move forward.
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Debbie Yvonne Jake Lapp, the key to preventing divorce is teaching what the true meaning of a Godly marriage is... one can not be guilty of a sin that they do not know is sin.... Adam and Eve were naked in the garden in the beginning was it sin then no, and why? Because the did not know it was a sin.....nakedness did not become a sin till they realized it was....
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Luisa Pohl Bonilla Detwiler Kelly, I am so sorry you and your children had to go through that, and I'm sorry there are those here who would heap coals upon your head
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Kelly W. Hunt It's ok Luisa, .. this is how they learn to think outside their own box. If they ever hope to evangelize (as we are taught to) then they will have to come to terms with who Paul and Jesus were speaking to in the first place: THE CHURCH.
Those raised by wolves... well, Praise God for His never-ending Mercy!
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Kelly W. Hunt Luisa, it was a hard, hard, time in my life. I did a lot of bad things myself, but I didn't molest or beat anyone. I just hurt myself and put up with the life. I dind't know what was happening to my boys. When I found out- that was it. I had to hide them, and I left the state and hid in seclusion. I was stalked, found out, beaten again, and finally had him arrested and put on trial for abuse. I won. I left. I don't believe he is part of Gods plan for my life.
Then I met my current husband. This is so child like. I had never been taught that you can't remarry. After all, my own parents have 7 marragies between them.
The NIGHT he proposed, I told him that it will never work with just him and I. The only way this will work is if it's a union of THREE. Me, You and God. He agreed. We both got on our knees in his Mama's basement and prayed to God to forgive us of our sins, known and unknown, and we asked Jesus into our hearts as Lord and Savior. We were little baby Christians.
Then of course we were married, as Christians only to find out years later that D&R was a sin?? Ok.. LORD, please forgive us.. We were ignorant of this and we promise to never divorce each other, or remarry. Amen.
That's it. We are what we are: Redeemed by the blood of Christ.
Someday I'll share my real testimony. It's pretty bleak, but that's what makes Gods love shine so bright!
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Luisa Pohl Bonilla Detwiler I love your story, Kelly, and just having you in my newsfeed has inspired me to seek a closer relationship with our Lord.
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Kelly W. Hunt I love you Sister.
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Luisa Pohl Bonilla Detwiler Igualmente (the same to you!)
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Harvey Yoder wow!!! comment number 132!! but this was a story worth reading because it made my mind work. it made me think of a lot of thoughts that I have thought before and some new ones as well. I hope I can put them all together but I will try to do so as a separate post. Kelly W. Hunt I think you are right on track and do a great job handling this page hopefully and seemingly with the help of the Holy Spirit.